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上一篇：伦敦新开建筑学，两年学业零成本（1）
Read the edited transcript from our interview with Will Hunter: 编辑的采访记录：对话威尔·亨特
翻译 @白木碉
Anna Winston: Why did you want to launch a new school? London has plenty. 安娜·温斯顿：你为什么要开一所新学校？伦敦的学校够多了。
Will Hunter: I started to think about a new model for architectural education in 2012 when the government raised the tuition fee cap to ￡9,000 per year. 威尔·亨特：当2012年政府将学费上限提高到每年9000英镑时，我开始思考一种新的建筑学教育模型。
The head of SCHOSA [the Standing Conference of Heads of Schools of Architecture] Alex Wright produced this really scary graph showing the interest on tuition fee debt vastly outstripping salary increases for a typical 30-year career as an architect. "Enter the architectural profession and forever be in debt" is not a great recruitment message. SCHOSA [建筑学院代表常务会议] 的负责人Alex Wright制作了一张令人吃惊的表格，从中可以看出，学费债务的利息远远高出一个典型的30年建筑师职业生涯的薪资增长。“踏入建筑行业，从此债不离身”可不是什么好的招聘启事。
I was thinking about a different way to view education-a different kind of model for architectural education. It would bring academia and practice together so there would be a kind of financial equilibrium between the two, making a more integrated and relevant architectural culture between the students and the practices in London and creating a much more dynamic, outward-facing architectural culture. 我正在思考用另一种方式来看待教育——一种不同以往的建筑学教育模型。它将把学术与实践集合起来以在两者间创造一种财政平衡，使伦敦的学生们和工作室之间更加一体和关联，同时创造出一种更加开放、更有活力的建筑文化。
“British architects are undervalued 英国的建筑师们被轻视了
Anna Winston: Is it fair to say that the existing system is a bit broken? 安娜·温斯顿：那些认为现存系统已经坏掉了的想法是否有失偏颇？
Will Hunter: I don't want say that particularly, we just want to do something different. There are some great schools in the UK and it would be silly to say that we are the only school that's experimenting. But I think what we're doing is completely different. 威尔·亨特：不敢苟同，我们只是想做一些不一样的事情。在英国有很多很棒的学校，说我们学校是唯一有实验精神的那就太蠢了。不过我们在做的事情的确完全不同。
Anna Winston: Can you explain why this financial situation is more of an issue for architecture than other subject areas? 安娜·温斯顿：你能不能解释一下，为什么财政问题对建筑学来说比其他学科更加突出？
Will Hunter: It's more of a problem because it is seven years' training, with five years' fees. The worrying thing is not only the high tuition fees but the low salary expectations. Today British architects are undervalued as they have been marginalised in the design and construction process and, since Thatcher's abolition of the fixed fees scales in the 1980s, have progressively undercut each other on price. 威尔·亨特：这不单单是个问题，因为设计7年的训练，其中5年都要支付学费。令人担忧的不仅是高昂的学费，还有低薪资预期。随着在设计和施工过程中逐渐被边缘化，今天英国的建筑师们被轻视了，自从上世纪80年代Thatcher取消固定费用标准以来，行业价格就在逐步被削减。
We've set up the London School of Architecture to bring academia and practice closer together in order to strengthen both. We're working with London Metropolitan and 40 practices in London, not only to seek a more accessible route into the profession, but to explore – and to shape – the future possibilities for the profession itself. 我们已经在伦敦建筑学院的设立中把学术与实践结合起来以事半功倍。我们与伦敦城市大学以及40个工作室合作，不仅是为了寻求就业的便利，更是为了探索和形成这个职业本事未来的更多可能性。
We agree that the role of the architect is not just to serve the world, but to question it. However, we want our students to combine the critique and the proposal. We don’t believe in fabricating alternative realities to design for, as we think that "real" reality is far more engaging, surprising and fascinating. 我们的观点是建筑师的职责不仅是服务于世界，更是质疑它。然而，我们也希望我们的学生能将批判与提议结合起来。我们并不相信编造出的模棱两可的真实设计，我们所理解的“真正的”真实是更加迷人、惊人和感人的。
“The role of the architect is not just to serve the world, but to question it 建筑师的职责不仅是服务于世界，更是质疑它
Anna Winston: So how have you turned this idea into a real school? 安娜·温斯顿：那么你怎样把这些想法变成一所真正的学校？
Will Hunter: It really came from writing a piece in the AR. Lots of people got in touch and it gradually formed as a kind of collective. It went from lots of meetings around tables and discussing ideas to more of a faculty, so it's grown organically, really. After we thought of it formally as a school, in October 2013, we started going round to all the practices and pitching to them to get them involved. There's been a real organic mission. 威尔·亨特：这真的始于在AR上撰写一篇文章。很多人被触动了并且逐渐形成一个集体。从很多围绕桌子的会议和讨论想法到全体教师会议，它的发展有机而真实。在2013年十月份，当我们正式把它当作一所学校之后，我们开始四处奔走游说于各个工作室以拉拢它们加入。那真是一个有机的过程。
Anna Winston: What are you hoping will be different about your students in particular? 安娜·温斯顿：你特别希望你的学生有哪些不同之处？
Will Hunter: Well I think I'd like them to have a kind of maverick quality, and to be entrepreneurial and to be experimental. And proactive. 威尔·亨特：但愿他们能有一种特立独行的品质，而且具有实干精神和实验精神。并且敢于主动。
Anna Winston: Do you have a manifesto for the school? 安娜·温斯顿：你有没有为学校制定一条校训？
Will Hunter: We want architectural education to be empowering and accessible, and also really relevant. The world is changing rapidly in so many areas, and the school has been established to explore the spatial consequences of that. Architecture is the only discipline able to do this, and that is what makes it so valuable and such an exciting time to be part of it. 威尔·亨特：我们希望建筑学教育能变得自主和亲民，而且真的联系实际。这个世界在各个领域变化飞快，而我们的学校就是设立来探索其中空间的因果变化的。建筑学在这件事上责无旁贷，这也令它更有价值，参与其中令人如此兴奋。
Anna Winston: And how is the relationship with The Cass working? 安娜·温斯顿：那么你们与Cass之间关系怎样？
Will Hunter: They're our academic partner. We're seeking validation from them, so our students would get a qualification. We're also seeking ARB accreditation, which would give the students the Part II. But that's a separate process. The London Met process gives the students an academic award so they could go on and do their PhD if they wanted to. 威尔·亨特：它们是我们的学术合作伙伴。我们正在向他们寻求认证，这样我们的学生就能得到承认。我们也在争取ARB的资格鉴定，他们能给我们的学生Part II的资格。但这些都是独立的过程。伦敦Met给学生提供学术奖以使他们能够继续攻读博士学位，如果他们愿意的话。
“You need a certain amount of people for critical mass, but we want everyone to know each other 你需要一定数量的人来形成规模，但是我们希望人人都能相互熟识
Anna Winston: But you're not seeking RIBA accreditation? 安娜·温斯顿：但是你们没有申请RIBA的认证？
Will Hunter: We are, but you can only seek that when you have a year's worth of work. If you get ARB accreditation then that's what gives you the Part II, and then the RIBA validation is like a gold standard on top of that. It's quite complicated. 威尔·亨特：是的，只有在拥有一年的工作积累之后你才能申请它。如果你得到了ARB认证，那么你就能得到Part II的资格，而RIBA就相当于这个体系顶端的金级标准。这很复杂。
Anna Winston: Were you expecting it to be this complicated? 安娜·温斯顿：你是否预料到它将如此复杂？
Will Hunter: No. I think I was probably quite naive. There's a graph that I've seen that starts with an uninformed optimist then an informed pessimist then you come out of the other side as an informed optimist. So I've been through the other side of that. I've had some really good people working on it as well, and I think people have been enthusiastic. 威尔·亨特：没有。看来我可能相当天真。我的经历可以这么概括：从一个无知的乐观主义者变成一个知情的悲观主义者，后来又变成一个知情的乐观主义者。所以最终我还是走出来了。很多很棒的人都在帮我，能感受到他们的热情。
Anna Winston: How many people are there going to be in the first year? 安娜·温斯顿：第一年这里会有多少人？
Will Hunter: We're looking for about 25. 威尔·亨特：我们正在寻找大概25人。
Anna Winston: So it's quite small – is that a purposeful decision? 安娜·温斯顿：这么说学校相当得小——这也是有意为之？
Will Hunter: Well I think we'll always remain quite small. The maximum we'll be is 40. You need a certain amount of people for critical mass but we don't want to get too big. We want everyone to know each other. 威尔·亨特：恩，我认为我们将会保持较小的规模。最多也不会超过40人。确实你需要一定数量的人来形成规模，但是我们不愿太大。我们希望人人都能彼此熟识。
Anna Winston: Whereabouts is the school going to be based? 安娜·温斯顿：学校将建在哪里？
Will Hunter: In 2015-16 our spatial partner is the Design Museum. The whole setup of the school is that we're renting spaces where we need them, so our lectures and crits and stuff for 2015-16 will be at the old Design Museum in Shad Thames. I think it's a good fit. They're leaving there in mid-2016. After that we don't know where we're going but we'll find somewhere. 威尔·亨特：2015年到2016年间我们的空间合作伙伴是设计博物馆。学校的所有设施都放置在我们租用的地方，所以2015年到2016年间所有的课程、活动和作品都将在沙德泰晤士的老设计博物馆中上演。我认为它们相得益彰。合同持续到2016年上半年，之后我们也不知道再去哪里，但我们会找个合适的地方的。
“What we're interested in is how practice and academia can be closer together 我们感兴趣的是怎样把实践和学术结合得更加紧密
Anna Winston: How is all this being funded and how much do students need to pay? 安娜·温斯顿：所有这些事务都是怎样运作的?学费是多少？
Will Hunter: The fees are ￡6,000 per year. The practices will pay a minimum of ￡12,000 for the first year placement, and that covers both years' fees. The students are working three days a week on a pro-rata salary of ￡20,000 that takes you to ￡12,000 that covers both year's fees. 威尔·亨特：费用是每年6000英镑。公司会为学生头年的实习支付至少12000英镑的报酬，这涵盖了两年的学费。学生需要每周工作三天，按比例得到20000英镑报酬中的12000英镑，足够支付两年的学费。
And we're currently fundraising. We're well over halfway through. 而且我们会持续筹款。半途而废不是我们的作风。
Anna Winston: So students will still need to find the costs to cover their accommodation and food and the cost of living in London? 安娜·温斯顿：也就是说学生们仍然需要筹备食宿和在伦敦生活方面的开支？
Will Hunter: Yes, in the first few years. We're going to apply for access to student finance once we've been open for a year and had a QAA review. That will take two years to come online, but the plan is within five years that we'll be offering lots of bursaries for people that want to study with us. 威尔·亨特：在头几年里是这样的。一旦我们开业满一年并获得QAA申报，我们就会申请给学生的资助。这要花两年的时间上线，但是在5年之内我们将提供很多奖学金来支持那些想要和我们一起学习的人。
Anna Winston: Why did you choose The Cass to work with? 安娜·温斯顿：为什么你们选择与Cass合作？
Will Hunter: Just because I thought they were the best fit. They've got some of the best practices teaching there already, so it's kind of a complete roster of people teaching at the school, and they're interested in the city, how it's changing, and the advocacy and the agency of the architects. And I've taught there already as well, so there's lots of cultural overlaps between us. Deborah [Saunt] teaches at London Met at the moment. Nigel [Coates, one of the member's of the London School of Architecture's judicial body] used to teach Robert [Mull], so there's mutual trust. 威尔·亨特：因为我认为他们是最好的。他们已经开设了一些很棒的实践课程，所以有体系完备的老师来教学，而且他们对城市如何变化、建筑师的思辨和力量等也感兴趣。而我早就在思考这些问题了，所以我们还是有很多共鸣的。Deborah [Saunt] 目前在伦敦Met执教。Nigel [Coates, 伦敦建筑学院司法机关的成员] 曾在Robert [Mull]执教，所以我们相互信任。
“You can teach practical skills, but unless you know how to think they become outdated quite quickly 你可以教授实践技能，前提是你能意识到它们有多容易过时
Anna Winston: Another issue that often arises in conversations about education is a perceived lack of practical training. Will your approach tackle this? 安娜·温斯顿：人们关于教育的对话中另一个经常提及的问题就是实践训练的薄弱意识。你会着手处理这点吗？
Will Hunter: What we're interested in is how practice and academia can be closer together. The practices that we've spoken to see this as a real opportunity for them to engage in ideas that they can't explore in commissioned projects. So I think it's about actually making a much tighter and integrated culture between the two. You can teach practical skills but unless you know how to think and how to strategise, they become outdated quite quickly. So what we want to do is teach students how to learn. 威尔·亨特：我们感兴趣的正是怎样将实践与学术结合得更加紧密。我们把谈过的这种实践看做一种机遇，能激发出人们在传统课程中无法触及的灵感。所以在我看来问题的关键是在两者间寻求广泛的联结。你可以教授实践技能，前提是你知道如何思考和如何决断，因为任何实践都会很快过时。我们想要做的就是教会学生怎样学习。
Anna Winston: And why aren't existing schools doing this? 安娜·温斯顿：那为什么现有学校不做这件事情？
Will Hunter: I'm sure they are. All these concerns are being discussed at the moment. I'm not saying that we're doing anything completely unique. I think what we're doing is different because it's based in London and what's unique about it is the people involved. Being in London, there's this amazing energy and intensity to the culture. 威尔·亨特：他们其实有在做。目前这些话题都有讨论过。我并不是说我们做的事情独一无二。在我看来我们的不同之处在于以伦敦为基点，其独特之处也正是它涉及到的人群。在伦敦，你能感受到文化惊人的的力量和强度。
We're not saying we're a model that can be done anywhere, it has to be in a big city. So you'd only really do it in London, Berlin, Tokyo. It needs to be somewhere there are lots of practices. 我们并没有说这是一个普适性的模型，它必须放在一个大城市才管用。也就是说只有在伦敦、柏林、东京这样的地方你才能正真做这件事情。这些地方必须有非常多的工作室。
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建筑师讨论
